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Post Info TOPIC: Marysville faces traffic nightmare with more trains


The Forum Celestial Advisor

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Marysville faces traffic nightmare with more trains
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I lived in Marysville WA twice in my life most recent

1989-91. The BNSF Bham Sub runs right through the

middle of town thus dividing the town in half every

time a train come through. Some "very busy crossings"

and traffic jams that can extend into I-5 just from an oil

train or coal train passing through at rush hour. I can

hear the trains whistling through Marysville from my

place most days at a nice safe distance of 7 miles.

No quick fix for Marysville if were are talking 35-40

trains a day on the "now" single track CTC BNSF

Bham Sub. I cant fathom the BNSF able to "do it"

very soon as they cant yard every freight destined

for Everett with the same crew yet. Too many trains

dead on the sidings. Now if you want to reference

the BNSF "Funnel" between Spokane and Sandpoint ID

where they could get 50 trains a day or more over the

single track mainline. For the BNSF Bham Sub to get to

even 30 trains a day they would need all available

sidings to be clear of dead trains always. Its starting

to sink-in for me that this oil-train coal-train thing is

moving-in and the new force of railroading/trains.

All this coal and oil traverses the Columbia River from

Pasco to Vancouver Wa on BNSF's best track at the

fastest speeds. A distaster with oiltrains on the Columbia

River would be a bad deal. So at Vancouver WA the route

turns straight north and heads through Tacoma, Seattle,Everett.

Potiential for some bad damage if an oil train derailed between

Seattle and Everett along the coastline. Then if these oil trains

were to continue north to Cherry Point, they would be running

along the 10-mile Chuckanut just South of Bellingham which

is tracks running right next to the beach. I'm kinda overwhelmed

so far as to the traffic levels right now but to add 18 more trains

a day up the BNSF Bham Sub is a flood I never could imagine.

 

Marysville faces traffic nightmare with more trains

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20140725/NEWS01/140729457



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Ah, yes and dont forget the 3 empty coal trains running through Sumas a day.

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The BNSF Sumas Sub has come in handy many times during
detours of traffic that goes the BNSF Bham Sub like when a
barge hits the rr bridge at New Westminster or something else.
Its been a while since I examined the condition of the BNSF Sumas
Sub but I know work trains have been busy at times on this Sub
so the track maybe all-welded Sumas to Sedro-Woolley. Now
Sedro Woolley is the 5mph corner at the bottom of a 1.7% grade
southward into the city. What it is is a wye from the old NP main
to the old GN main that runs west to Burlington WA and a really
tight curve which since BN Timetables came out the Sumas Sub
has a restriction on axels..only 4-axel locomotives only. So some
changes have been made to let the big GE Dash-9's and EMD SD70MAC's
bring an empty coal train down the Sumas Sub. I'm not sure how
3-empty coal trains a day southward on the Sumas Sub is "allieviating"
any "build-up" of traffic that will eventually end up in Everett.
Be searching the trainpix websites for the first to get pictures of these
empty coal trains on the Sumas Sub. I have many pix of the Sumas
Sub 30-40 years ago. It was fun chasing BN #144 at dawn at
Burlington all the way to Sumas with A-B-B-B-A lash-up of F-Units.
It wasnt that long ago that I heard rumors that BNSF wanted to
sell the Sumas Sub to a shortline but that dint happen. The BNSF
still has some use for Sumas Sub and I'm ok with that.

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Uke


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It's all but impossible ta run ANY six-axle power up, or down the Sumas sub. Empty coal... Empty hoppers can return ta the rejoin the main at Burlington, but in short strings* pulled by Geeps only!

The 'stringers' might be a third of a full-length unit coal train*. Sumas has been CWR (continuous welded rail) for at least the past twelve years. And the roadbed has been upgraded for 286-K cars. The weakest point? The old timber bridge which crosses SR-20 just outside 'downtown' Wooley World...

*Interesting idea, but more trouble than it's worth for 2LARRCO... All that extra switching, crew hours, power diversions, etc. They prefer keeping entire trains (empty/full) moved as one... From mine to destination, and return. Efficiency. Uncle Warren likes that!



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Force Majeure

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Bullschitt! Gus keeps his eyes on this one 24/7.

He will post a "NO CHAINSAWS" sign now that you have complained.

Screen Shot 2014-07-28 at 10.03.29 AM.png



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Uke


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Well of course! http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?49706-BNSF-Sumas-Sub-coal-empties

There's a few useful/relevand comments from a dude who used ta post at TRF, who at that the time went by "Gandy..." He disappeared when Zeb scuttled that site. He may be posting again, using his real name here. And he seems ta know an awful lot concerning the GPNW work on 2LARRCO. http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?48904-BNSF-track-projects-WA-State-2014



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Guess Warren is too cheep to buy steerable truck Locomotives.

 



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Cy used to go across this fine bridge occasionally, while working a local roustabout job.  Still standing and in use today, at least twice a week.  Customer just to the left, out of sight, sometimes has moves that leaves the engine stopped on the bridge.  Never cared for that much.  Just because.

Butler.JPG



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Uke


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The GE Dash-9s are supposed ta be 'radial' trucks, and so are EMDs from the 70MAC on... But there are a few really tight curves along the Sumas Sub that no steerable truck could go 'round without tearing the rails ta hell, or derailing no matter the speed...

This is Krink's thread, but a few facts about Marysville might help ta clear...  Ta gain access ta the freeway, I-5 which is the main route north and south, ya gotta cross the railroad. Then again there ARE other ways ta get out without crossing the rails...

But since nobody actually works in Marysville, damn near everybody catches I-5 ta drive south to Seattle, Everett, Mukilteo (Boeing), Lynwood, or north ta just get away...

Take a peek at the map for other main roads in/out of Mary. The population of this once rural hamlet, has probably increased four fold! Washington's Puget Sound area is the fastest growing area along the west coast. Damn near every small town along the I-5 corridor, north and south of Seattle has grown inta cities in their own right! Small town America? Not here!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marysville,_Washington


http://tinyurl.com/loaho64



-- Edited by Uke on Monday 28th of July 2014 10:05:21 PM

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The Forum Celestial Advisor

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I got some great pictures of the "5-mph" curve at Sedro Woolley
that I will post later. Until I hear otherwise I say the empty coal
trains kept their same power as they went up with coming back
the Sumas Sub. I just remembered why these diversions were
happening in the first place was tie-gang work on the BNSF Bham
Sub up north of Bellingham so its the easiest train on the Sumas
Sub trackwork and bridges. A 3400 ton empty coal train is nothing
compared to the tonnage that ran over this route back in the 70's
thru the present. There has been some monster trains that have
come down Sumas Sub to Everett. Remember back to 1974 when
I was working manifest clerk in Everett Wa and I got an advanced
computer printout of a 173 car BN train 143 from Sumas. To this
day it's the longest train I ever saw.

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Force Majeure

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What is this "empty coal train" that you write about?

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Think all the all the old wood bridges can handle the weight on the Sumas
Sub as the CP has delivered a bunch of potash trains which are 11-14K
ton trains that run southward from time to time over the years. So
maybe with the advent of "self-steering trucks" the new mega-beast
locomotives can do a "5-mph curve" like the one at Sedro Woolley.
Well if these detour empty coal trains can make it down the Sumas Sub
without issue, think the BNSF will do even more improvements to keep
this line as a very important "Plan-B" to the Bham Sub which is at the
mercy of coastal weather storms and the unstable 10 miles of the
Chuckanut with rocky cliffs. Suppose the trains that run in the future
up/down the Sumas Sub will be very photogenic.

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Snippy wrote:

What is this "empty coal train" that you write about?


 Hah! That's easy, it's a 'unit-train' composed of all coal cars. The biggest diff... Wait. All hopper-type cars (including auto-flood cars), uh... Hmmm... These empty FORMER coal trains are actually hoppers (empty) that were previously used to haul coal. Right!

Now, devoid of loads, the entire UNIT train (formerly full of coal) makes the trip back to the region where coal is mined, to make another trip somewhere as a COAL train. Again. But full of coal.

Hope this helps!



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Snippy wrote:

What is this "empty coal train" that you write about?


 The ones run by SCABS, retiree's and picket jumpers at the Rocky mountaineer



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There are many old Western Maryland branches over on the Mountain Sub that were the sole territory for GP-7/9 and F-7/9, and later GP 38/40's.

Over the years  coal cars got heavier (better steel/aluminum, plus less cars need to haul same product) they strengthened the bridges and put in CWR, but they were limited by lack of room to ease very many curves.

When ya get down to it, modern freight cars are built with 35 tons per axle loading. This is comparable to modern locomotives

which are built to similar figures. SD70AC 210 tons divided by 6 = 35 tons. CW44AH 216 tons divided by 6 = 36 tons.

So, weight is hardly a limitation to be overcome, but degree of curvature is. 6 axel rigid truck Locomotives would try to straighten out the curve and leave the tracks.

Enter the steerable truck. Now the 6 axel Loco can ease around sharp curves with its flexible trucks and at no time will an axel lose contact with the rail, or try to

push a rail out of gague.(normal operation)

I would be hard pressed to explain why you would have to run a 40 car empty train in lieu of 120 emptys. ( I mean were talkin railroad here, not streetcar line)(aint we?)

They run 80 car loads/emptys over this piece of spaghetti not far from where I type. (Power plant at mount Storm)

Screenshot (19477).jpg

 

 



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