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Date: August 6, 2008 11:59
Long end forward - additional cost?
Author: john1082

Years ago when SOU and NW used to operate locomotives long end forward, was there an additional cost at the time of purchase to set them up long hood forward? Is it a simple matter of swinging the control stand around 180 degrees or were substantial plumbing and electrical changes needed in order to make everything fit?

John Gezelius
Orange, CA

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Date: August 6, 2008 12:57
Re: Long end forward - additional cost?
Author: alco636

IIRC, the N&W high nosed locomotives had dual controls. I'm sure that was a big cost. Plus didn't the SRR have horns on both ends of some locomotives?

Al Seever
Minneapolis, MN

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Date: August 6, 2008 13:43
Re: Long end forward - additional cost?
Author: aehouse

I can't speak to the N&W situation (though I suspect it was similar), but I can address the Southern Railway's use of dual control engines. I was close friends with a Southern executive in the 1970s and early 80s, and he told me that the reason the railroad had dual controls was so that neither end of the locomotive could be considered the front. He explained that it was done this way so that crew members would not demand front-facing locomotives in consists, and Southern therefore saved considerable expense by not having to turn locomotives. The additional costs of dual control must have been more than offset by the elimination of turning engines.

Art House

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Date: August 6, 2008 15:06
Re: Long end forward - additional cost?
Author: gyralite

Definitely additional costs for the second control stand. Your friend's "meaning" is correct about not having a "front" for the purposes of the crew however, technically there is always a "front" to a locomotive (without regard to the crew's seating situation).
49 CFR 229.11 - Locomotive Identification reads:

a) The letter F shall be legibly shown on each side of every locomotive near the end which for identification purposes will be known as the front end.

(b) The locomotive number shall be displayed in clearly legible numbers on each side of each locomotive.

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Snippy


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Idious! Southern never had a dual control stand locomotive. They made us run long-hood forward from the right so that we would be thankful and happy to short nose it from the left.

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Snippy double posted!
Snippy double posted!
Snippy double posted!
Snippy double posted!



-- Edited by Snippy at 20:16, 2008-08-06

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You could be at risk for that!

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Cy Valley


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I've said it before and I'll say it again, I and most of my peers HATED running from the left side, looking back at the speedometer, everything backward to us, we HATED it, we thought it put cricks in our neck. We never did it, except on locals, prior to the merger with that other outfit.

Snippy, I was going to ask you but you already told me, I never saw a Southern dual control engine and I was wondering if they'd ever had them before the merger but you told me what I already thought was true.

Shortly before the merger, N&W bought single control EMD power, I suppose in anticipation of the merger. And, about 1970, they bought some single control GE power, which didn't even stay on the property ten years, I don't think.

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Speaking of getting shit backwards. When I was an LET, we were approaching the yard with one of the 6600s in the lead. For some reason I got mixed up and went from full dynamic straight to idle. When mr. hogger heard the dynamic cut out he yelled that I give it full service and then said something about these POS drop their load quite load often. When we got to the yard office I admitted that it was me who fucked up not the engine.

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Snippy wrote:

Idious! Southern never had a dual control stand locomotive. They made us run long-hood forward from the right so that we would be thankful and happy to short nose it from the left.



You sir better rethink your post.....Art House was a close friend to a Southern Executive.



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Idious Maximus

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Pipes FC wrote:

Speaking of getting shit backwards. When I was an LET, we were approaching the yard with one of the 6600s in the lead. For some reason I got mixed up and went from full dynamic straight to idle. When mr. hogger heard the dynamic cut out he yelled that I give it full service and then said something about these POS drop their load quite load often. When we got to the yard office I admitted that it was me who fucked up not the engine.


Huh, I guess you were a little mixed up.  Good thing your hogger was awake.  What's Briz gonna think of this?

 



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Briz the Great shouldn't have to much to say. I remember him saying he did something similar with the automatic.

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Brizy


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Hell, we all fuck up at one point in time, CY.....

I ripped a loaded coal train in 3 pieces when I was goin through LET....This was prior to them having DP....I dont think it wouldve mattered either way....

I wanted to quit goin through engine service when I was makin my trips on the West end that had some narly undulating areas...I mean, the type of places where the track guys back in the day just swept the dust off the hills and laid rail....I had run ins and run out like you wouldnt believe...I hated it...

The only thing that gets me all puckered up is runnin a loaded grain train at speed through the hills and gettin color....Imediate 10lb set and dynos and waitin for the fuckin brakes to take hold to get the speed down...Sometimes it feels like eternity....

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Brizy wrote:
...I mean, the type of places where the track guys back in the day just swept the dust off the hills and laid rail....

We have a section like that on our line, it looks like a roller coaster.  Someone told me that part of the line was originally built for interurban passenger. 



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Brizy wrote:

Hell, we all fuck up at one point in time, CY.....

I ripped a loaded coal train in 3 pieces when I was goin through LET....This was prior to them having DP....I dont think it wouldve mattered either way....


Holy shit! How the hell did ya get it in 3 pieces??

 



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Cy Valley


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The best screw-up moments are the ones that, somehow, turn out ok, even if they were a little exciting while you were doing them. Then, when its over, you think, I am NEVER going to try that again.

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Buckethead wrote:

Brizy wrote:

Hell, we all fuck up at one point in time, CY.....

I ripped a loaded coal train in 3 pieces when I was goin through LET....This was prior to them having DP....I dont think it wouldve mattered either way....


Holy shit! How the hell did ya get it in 3 pieces??


Im guessing cause I wasnt wearing Red Wings and/or Bibs.....

Was goin up this hill and we had stopped at a crossing cause we wouldnt fit in the siding....When they was ready for us, I kicked it off and started to pull...The head end rolled back a little and I panicked and set the ind. The hogger screamed, "NOOOO!!" and I panicked again and came out on the throttle and POWWWW!







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 the speed on the track is 10 mph and its restricted speed, so at 10 on that blind corner they had a banner set up....
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