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Post Info TOPIC: Sad Day in Ontario


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Sad Day in Ontario
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/02/26/viarail-toronto.html 

Via Rail has confirmed that three of its employees, all in the locomotive section, died in a train derailment in southern Ontario on Sunday afternoon.

"There's no question it's very tragic. We're a relatively small company, we're a family, we know everyone by name," said Via chief operating officer John Marginson, speaking to reporters at the scene.

"We certainly feel for the families of the colleagues that we lost," said Marginson, who added that there was no fuel leak at the site. The derailment involved five cars as well as the locomotive.

"It's very premature to speculate but obviously something went very wrong," he said.

One of the engineers who died was a trainee. A fourth Via employee was injured in the derailment.

Halton police Chief Gary Crowell said the bodies of the dead were removed from the train at about 8 p.m. ET.



-- Edited by Cy Valley on Sunday 26th of February 2012 08:08:28 PM

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Chilean Night Skies



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Wow, you don't think of this in the era of wide bodies.... Very sad. Looks like an F40PH

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If Snippy were to speculate, it looks like it could have been a center pin failure on the lead trucks.

They ended up a long way from everything else.

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What a nightmare. Some DRAINORDERS investigator said the VIA trains run 90 through this area. I've no idea, found no news stories that mention speed.

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Those cabs are small. I had the execuative train a while back, and with the RFE and my BOSS, plus our grips, I can only imagine what would happen if ya threw that over on its side.

RIP Brothers.. 



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Looks like the Engine went over on the Engineers side and then slid alongside a building doing the can opener thing to the top of the cab/ windshield area.

It was an interlocking::::

http://binged.it/wfqP1P



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Calvin wrote:

It was an interlocking::::

http://binged.it/wfqP1P


A quick trip into a turnout could have deleterious effects on the lead truck centerpin, too. They said the guy guarding the trucks was half a kilometer away.



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"David Jeans, national president of Transport 2000 Canada, a public advocacy group, said the crash location is one where trains can cross over from one track to another, and something can go wrong when there is more complex track work.

Rex Beatty, president of the Teamsters Canada Rail Conference, the union that represents Canadas locomotive engineers, said it appeared the derailment occurred while the train was crossing tracks.

Beatty said the manoeuvre is unusual for this location and he was aware of a crew working on the tracks from which the train was crossing over."

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Snippy wrote:

If Snippy were to speculate, it looks like it could have been a center pin failure on the lead trucks.


 I guess the center pin failed when they tried ta go 67mph thru a 15mph crossover. The brakes were not applied, So the next question is What kind of signal was these guys looking at? 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/03/01/toronto-via-rail-investigation-update.html

According to the TSB, the train was travelling 67 miles per hour (108 km/h) while changing tracks. But the speed limit for changing tracks in the area that train was passing through is 15 mph, or 24 km/h.

Investigators say the brakes were not applied before the train travelling from the Niagara Region to Toronto crashed.

Griffith said the safety board is not out to lay blame in its investigation but to find out the factors behind the derailment.

No crew sets out to have an accident. Sadly, this crew paid the ultimate price they lost their lives, he said.



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Calvin, I read somewhere that there was MofW working and they had a dispatcher's bulletin or whatever they might call it, that stated they would be crossing over where VIA normally didn't. See if I can find that.

Really sad.

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Snippy wrote:
Calvin wrote:

It was an interlocking::::

http://binged.it/wfqP1P


A quick trip into a turnout could have deleterious effects on the lead truck centerpin, too. They said the guy guarding the trucks was half a kilometer away.


 Snippy is wondering if it may not have been a Red over Yellow - or green- over Red on a road that has no speed restriction on an approach signal. (CN US did not have such a restriction as late as 2008.) Crew misses or sun kills the top red.

"Beatty said the manoeuvre is unusual for this location and he was aware of a crew working on the tracks from which the train was crossing over."


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I dont know about Canadian signals, wether they are speed or route specific.

It would seem logical to me tho, that at least 2 signals would be involved, ie:

1) Approach diverging; then diverging clear or diverging approach.

2) Approach Medium, Approach slow, slow clear or slow approach.

How you come up on a slow speed switch at near 70mph with no prior warning?

 

Cy.. just cause you have a dispatcher message ordering you to switch tracks at a certain location does not mean the signals will not be displaying thier proper aspect, unless a signal suspension was in effect, something that would have come to light by now.



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Yes, Calvin, agreed. And, if the signals had been suspended, it seems likely to me that they wouldn't have been running anywhere near that fast, so I'm sure that's not the case. And other stuff I won't bring up here.

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I was in a similar wreck on Amtrak in 1986. We went through a 10mph crossover at 70 (in emergency) with similar results. The fireman was killed, the engineer rode it out on the control stand. Dispatcher was trying to get in touch with us and tell us he was going to cross us over from the EB to the WB main (Rule 251 ABS territory) but the antenna on the F40 was bad. The operator in Portage was also trying to get a hold of us. I listened to the whole thing on a scanner that somebody had brought. The switch tender thought that we knew we were crossing over, so he waited until he saw our headlight round the curve 2 miles form him. (The last signal we would have seen before the x-over was at the curve.) When he saw the headlight he lined the EB switch first and then walked to the WB switch, with his back towards us. He had no idea how fast we were going until he turned around and saw us right on top of him. The hawg blew'em out when he saw the first switch was lined but we were less than 1/2 a mile form it, and we only lost 9 mph when we went into it.

I was in a dome car at the rear of the train and felt us go into emergency, then I saw a plume of dust. I thought we had hit a car at a crossing until the severe jolts started. The train was running into the cars following the units into the ditch, just kicking them out of the way.

When the dust had settled, my dad and I worked our way to the head end to see wtf was going on. The closer we got the the "F", the more damaged the cars were. The first car that stayed on upright (though buried up to the floor in ballast) was about 100 yards past where the loco's came to a rest. I'll never forget the sight of 2 F40's laying on their sides, exhaust wafting up from the stacks, alarm bells ringing, the hogger sitting right below the window saying "I lost my glasses, I can't find my fireman. Still got my cigar though..." and then taking a drag off his stogie.

The fireman was standing next to the engineer, talking on the radio when they went in. The hogger laid out on the control stand (AAR stands save lives!) while the fireman fell to the fireman side. The windshield broke and he got smothered and twisted around like he was in a washing machine. I was there when they found him, I saw his leg, knee and foot, and they weren't where they were supposed to be in relation to each other.

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Anyone have current news on the investigation, or up-to-date info on this one? It's only been a month or so, but LINTCO area Northeast has a mixed bag of commuters, passengers, and freight running in the very same location.

Do they all (Hogers) follow signal indications in the same manner? I mean are the same indications applicable to all movement through that interlocking, regardless of train type?

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